Not that I expect any replies, but I am starting to wonder, and to be honest, perplexed at the ratings some advertise for a trip they run, especially  the so called 'easy/medium' trips here.... Of late there have been some of these trips that have taken some of the novices outside their comfort zone and/or where a completely standard vehicle is going to struggle. Whilst many trip leaders are experienced and have capable/modified vehicles, do they consider that tracks he/she may find easy might be difficult for those 4wders with less experience/vehicle modifications than them?. Do they consider that tracks planned might be reasonably straight forward if dry, turn to crap after a little rain?. For example, I see trips up to the high country rated as easy and look at the tracks planned, such as Billy Goats, and think, 'Are you serious"?. A little rain or after heavy traffic, this track can become a fair challenge.

Whilst not perfect, the 4wd Vic track rating is a pretty good guide, as it is based on standard vehicles with A/T tyres. Maybe we should look at a similar system with a few modifications. Whilst the 'medium/hard' and 'hard' rating that Kelvin has set up is very good, very few use it and in reality  the 'medium/hard' rating should be utilised far more than it is. By the same token, any trip that requires low range on a regular basis should be 'medium' with minimum requirements set by the trip leader. 'Easy' trips in my opinion are suitable for SUV vehicles with low range not required etc etc eg, basically driving secondary roads such as Marginal in Toolangi etc etc. Also , how many take into consideration; 'WORST CASE SCENARIO"? eg, wet weather etc.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Here here.... 

Easy to me is no necessary modifications, limited to no experience and having a cruisey day. 

Medium a step up from that

Hard = full on good luck at getting through unscathed or without damage, either panel or mech regardless of vehicle and /or driver capability.

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I agree with you Allan and Alex . 

If anything I would suggest that " Trip Leaders " planning trips , should know exactly where they are going 1st , Instead of making it up as you go along ,know how long it really takes to get from Point A to B etc in a worse case scenario , and have alternative routes in mind if needed , limit the number of cars on a trip to say 6 or 8 max . 

Have good basic radio comms understood 1st before you leave , and place cars in convoy correctly so everyone has help at hand if needed.

Its all about fun and enjoyment for everyone involved and get there and back and want to do it and more again 

We went on one "Easy" trip a few weeks ago just out of interest as I knew of no "easy" tracks around that area apart from the connecting dirt roads . Sure as , it got ugly and whilst we got through ok (spent a hour winching) others found it a stressful experience way outside their comfort zone and Id call it a complete Balls Up , lucky Kelvin was at the tail end to help turn them around . 

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Yes, agree that we all need to be mindful about what we ourselves consider difficult vs a general standardised view. I admit I have made a few errors of judgement with my trips where I have said it's easy or easy medium and others have struggled.

As Rick said, It's a good idea for the trip to be well planned especially if it's easy or easy/medium. If you are experienced as a driver and leading a more beginner group you should know where you are taking them, have a detailed description of what to expect and a thorough briefing at the start of the trip.

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Hi guys I beleive the trip ratings are a general guide only. Unfortunately 4wding is not something that can be planned to the last degree. As even if you drive tracks the week before a week later things can changed drastically. As has been mentioned having alternative routes if available and having a good idea of where you want to go is always good but things happen so this is where common sense must come in especially for beginners. At thd end of the day the trip rating is a guide only and people must use common sense as to what they are capable of. I think it also helps to look at the trip leaders car and other cars on the trip to help guage what that person interperates as easy medium hard ect... Any way just my opinion cheers

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Agree with all the comments but it is a tough one, I have done Billy Goats plenty of times, some times its rough as guts with big steps and really loose that I have seen twin locked trucks struggle with, other times you could almost drive a standard  subaru forrester up it.

My advise would always go with the "air of caution" and rate it harder than you would expect if a open trip, that way the least experianced will not be put in a ugly situation for private trips when thge trip leader knows all the drivers and there cars its not so important

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If you want to take into account "WORST CASE SCENARIO' when rating a trip , which I think is the correct way of thinking, then the issue of being self recoverable should apply in all area's. In other words having a winch fitted to your vehicle and having the appropriate recovery equipment. I see runs posted that have vehicles or allow vehicles to join that dont have the means of being self recoverable.

The 'what if' factor should always be taken into account imo. I doesn't take much for things to go wrong if the weather changes or if the track is greasy to start with. Have had to recover plenty of vehicles that have simply slid of the track and cant get back on. Even main forestry roads can become quite a hazzard.  It has happened to me on easy tracks that dont look like any issue, but throw in a bit of camber and off you slide. No issue if you have a winch and equipment, which I do, It's when other people dont and expect to rely on the ones that do to recover them that it can become an issue.  Not saying I wouldn't help in a recovery, always have, always will, however, being self recoverable should be the No1 priority when setting your vehicle up to head off road, easy track or not.

Cheers.

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Thanks to those who have replied with their thoughts and suggestions.....

Rick, like you was surprised the trip you went on was rated 'easy/medium' for same reason you said, and reading some of the reports, it did seem like many found the trip confronting, even if it was only one track that caused the major issues.

Discomatt used the classic example of Billy Goats; there have been times when it has been easier than others, but  using the 'worst case scenario', this track has caught out many 4wders.

Matt86, yes not a bad idea to look at the trip leaders vehicle, especially if he/she have rated the trip 'easy', but not too sure if many do that. There have been many trips where I think "this is beyond  the capabilities of some vehicles" but people see the 'easy' in the trip rating and sign up.

Winston, most of us have been caught out with a trip rating at some time, especially on public trips, so hopefully we have all learnt not to 'under rate' a trip in the future. In regards to a 'private' trip when the leader knows the driver/vehicle capabilities, he/she can possibly be a little more flexible with their rating but still should look at 'worst case scenario'. As Matt86 said, doesnt take long or much for a track to change from reasonably easy to bloody hard, especially if the weather gods have anything to do with it.

Alex, some good points on self recovery and I think we all agree that it would be preferred if everyone had a winch etc, but not all do or will due to a variety of reasons whether it be financial or maybe they are new to 4wding and unsure whether they want to go down the path of fully kitting out their vehicle. What I cant believe is that some trips still have basic recovery gear as 'RECCOMENDED'.... Snatchstrap, shackles etc should be MANDATORY on every trip that involves any 'off the bitumen' driving and unless you have these items as a minimum, you should not be permitted to join a trip.

This site is continually growing with many new members also new to 4wding. Also there is a increasing number of members who are starting to run their 1st trips and more often than not have not met any of the other participants meaning being unsure of driver/vehicle capabilities and more importantly, what some 4wders classify a 'easy trip'. Am sure a few have been put off joining other trips as a result of a trip they joined being rated 'easy' and it turned out not being the case.

As mentioned earlier, I still believe any easy trip is one where low range is not required. Where low range is required, medium rating at least, then go up from there. I would much prefer people to come on one of my medium trips and say that was ''pretty easy", rather than run a so called 'easy' trip where some participant are taken well and truely outside there comfort zone. Yes, it has happened on 2 trips I have run in the past....

Hopefully a few more will express their opinions or suggestions, and it would be great to hear from some of  the novice 4wders and/or those who are new to trip leading. Also feel free to say I am 'talking dribble' if you believe so.

Cheers

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As Allan as said ues the 4wd vic rating for tracks and trips ,thats what its there for.It will be more uniformed, so the planed tracks in your trip, go by the symbol rating  by the 4wd vic, so if one track is rated med in your track list ,that puts your trip into med or what ever the star system is with 4wd vic.As for the big noters about tracks , just ignore them.           http:/ /www.4wdvictoria.org.au/iconic4wd/track.html                                                                                                           there track ratings are   easy, med, diff, very diff

 just a thought, might be more of a pain in the thumb going though every track on your planned trip

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I think the key to it is description of the trip. Needs to be thorough.

Allan, you've said an easy trip wouldn't involve engaging low range. I see it differently and it may be a clash with 4wdVic rating system, but for me 4wding is low range. Otherwise it's driving on a country road.

One thing hopefully coming soon is a much needed Extreme trip rating.

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Better to be on the side of caution with ratings, dont want to discourage newbies and beginners  from joining more trips

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Hi all, I'd like to provide a perspective from a newbie to 4wding. I've been on a few trips since joining and have not been disappointed at all. I was looking for a club to join when I came across this site and knew that it was the one for me. The forum was welcoming and encouraging when I joined my first trip and it was all about just 'getting out there' and having a go. To me it was common sense to have recovery gear appropriate tyres and a recovery point before I went on my first trip and I made sure I had it before I joined a trip. I was however reliant on on others if I needed to be winched but I thought that since the trip was rated easy it shouldn't be a problem. I do strongly believe that no trip can be classified easy in the wet weather. That is why I have become fairly inactive on the site for this time of year. We have all said that tracks can change at the drop of a hat and I completely agree. Wet tracks are mud are not the best thing to experience for someone new to the sport especially when sliding down a hill where their first instinct is to apply the brakes and lose all control, what I mean by that is, get the inexperienced driver to learn in a more favourable environment before tackling things that are less predictable and help improve their confidence. IMO the trip ratings are good for those that know a bit about what there doing. For someone in a stock 4wd and new to off roading, easy means just that.

I also believe that the trip leader should be aware of the level of experience of the drivers that join the trip and the trip conditions and rate the trip appropriately. Now before everyone jumps up and down, I think that ALL vehicles should have a minimum requirement. A stock 4by in the wet might as well attach themselves to the car in front when they air down and only cut the snatch strap when they air up at the end (if they have a decent recovery point). The trip leader does have the right to ask others not to join if they don't meet the requirement and maybe that right should be exercised more often because new comers simply are not aware of what to expect. 

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not, but these 'easy' rated trips appear to have been getting noticed more so during the wetter time of year.

I hope I haven't offended anyone. All I know is that when I joined this site I did rely heavily on the experience of the trip leader because I literally had none to begin with and wanted their guidance and I used the trip rating as a guide to pick the trips I could go on. 

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