Traction Control vs Diff Lock (Lockers)

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()
02 Mar 2017

See if this video works. The hill is much steeper than it looks. First run is with Stabilty off and using only traction control. Second is with diff lock on and traction and stabilty disabled. VIDEO HERE

can't get to the video - don't have FB ... ;(

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Andrew
Andrew (whipit)
02 Mar 2017

() wrote:

seen the interest on that topic, I might ask my boss if we can do a T/C test day on our obstacle course.

that would be great if he agree's, I'd be happy for you to use my navara as guinea pig if it means I learn how to use the T/C better

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()
02 Mar 2017

that would be great if he agree's, I'd be happy for you to use my navara as guinea pig if it means I learn how to use the T/C better

that what I have in mind, bring your own 4WD (with some form of T/C) to learn more about it

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Luke Watt
Luke Watt (Apples)
02 Mar 2017

() wrote:

that what I have in mind, bring your own 4WD (with some form of T/C) to learn more about it

I'd be keen to join in on such a test day. I've got a Ford Ranger and it uses engine traction control, kicks in on a wet road pretty quick. Selecting low range automatically turns traction control off. Haven't realy tried out high 4

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Dave
Dave (disco)
02 Mar 2017

HI, I have both Traction control and lockers front and back (and hill decent). They all work well in thier areas but not in all areas. I find traction control works well in sand and most muddy uneven conditions. The lokers really come to life in straight (Or almost straight) steep rocky or loose climbs where you have one wheel off the ground sort of thing. Lockers will always do this type of climbing better. So if you can afford it go for everything. Also beware there is many so called traction controll systems out there that are not so good offroad, just do your research first. 

I also read once that diff lockers just get you in the shit more, this is true to a degree, but in general diff lockers will make it easier on your vehicle and easier on the environment.

Regards
Dave

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Simon
Simon (PovPack80)
02 Mar 2017

() wrote:

I think you mixed the torque figures up.

Open Diff -> distributes torque to wheel with least traction

Locked Diff -> equal torque no matter what.

in a situation (assuming centre is locked) where you have t......

nope that's correct, it's a common misconception.

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()
02 Mar 2017

nope that's correct, it's a common misconception.

yep - my bad - mixing up Torque and Power

all the power goes out he wheel that is spinning.

more detailed reading: http://www.optimumg.com/docs/DifferentialAnalysis_BertaReport.pdf

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Winston
Winston (Winston_FJ)
02 Mar 2017

Great discussion! Many differing opinions due to many differing experiences and vehicles.

The 2015 FJ that I have has brilliant traction control but really takes some learning to make it work to your advantage. You actually have to drive more aggressively but the ECU scales it back to a very usable grip and power balance. I also am twin locked and really use them, either independently or together, as a last resort. T/C for IFS vehicles is a wonderful CV saver.

I love having the technology at my disposal and am learning more and more about how and when to use them all to suit the tracks and conditions best.

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Kelvin
Kelvin (TREXGQ)
02 Mar 2017

HI, I have both Traction control and lockers front and back (and hill decent). They all work well in thier areas but not in all areas. I find traction control works well in sand and most muddy uneven conditions. The lokers really come to life i......

Haha, good feedback mate. I tend to agree, the more capable your vehicle becomes (eg. T/C, Lockers), the more venturous you will be, which in turn may potentially put you in a deep"er" shit :) 

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Kelvin
Kelvin (TREXGQ)
02 Mar 2017

Great discussion! Many differing opinions due to many differing experiences and vehicles.

The 2015 FJ that I have has brilliant traction control but really takes some learning to make it work to your advantage. You actually have to driv......

Yes, I think knowing "what" and "when" to use your traction aid is so important. I strong suggest all 4wders out there, get to know your car first and see it's limit. "Get out there..." 

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First time poster, long time lurker here, I'd like to put my two cents here. First people still get stability control and traction control mixed up. Generally because stability control has so many different names depending on the company (in my instance in a late model pajero its called ASC, active stabilty control) which can be turned off but the traction control can't without pulling fuses out. I don't have lockers and feel I might not need them for a long time as I have learnt how the traction control works and drive quite well with them (most recent shock was in toolangi where she happy crawled through stuff that other people got stuck in). The only issue I have with my traction control is that some hill climbs in the high country is might turn it's self off due to the system over heating (quite scary when it happens the first time as the car starts beeping at you, not something you want to hear on your first trip out).

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()
03 Mar 2017

Haha, good feedback mate. I tend to agree, the more capable your vehicle becomes (eg. T/C, Lockers), the more venturous you will be, which in turn may potentially put you in a deep"er" shit :) 

so true, I once read in a Unimog review to keep in mind that you can go where no one else can come to recover if needed ;)

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Tony
Tony (Bludge)
03 Mar 2017

() wrote:

so true, I once read in a Unimog review to keep in mind that you can go where no one else can come to recover if needed ;)

What a great question, a little like Nissan vs Toyota..

I am lucky to own a 2004 Toyota 100 series (340,000 kms I drove them all) with front and rear locker, I also own a Landrover Discovery 4 (170000kms) which has an electric centre diff and traction control.

I also drive various 4WD's mostly the 79 dual cabs with electric lockers and occasionally a 200 with Traction Control.

So I can speak about both systems on various vehicles.. 

Why did traction control get put into 4WD's?

As 4WD's changed from solid axels to indepenent front ends, the wheels started to lift, no suspension kit can overcome the lack of travel that independent suspension has. At the  same time, bigger brakes were required for the statutory ABS to be fitted to cars and 4WD's.

Enter traction control, the same ABS action can be used in reverse to give you traction control...

So we now end up with 17" - 18" and 19" rims to accomodate bigger brakes with traction control

More on traction control later....

 

My 100 series Toyota. I have front and rear ARB Air Lockers, I rarely use the lockers as I have the suspension sorted well and the wheels keep in contact with the ground even with torsion bars at the front. Note: all wheels touching the ground = traction.

But when I demo the lockers, it feels like it can climb vertical walls, rear diff is fantastic, front diff is amazing.

Pro's Lockers are truely amazing, everyone should drive a vehicle with lockers, just once in their life.

  1. Allows you to approach all obsticles at a low/slow speed
  2. Can get you through with less damage to the vehicle.
  3. Perfect for rock climbing or climbing over logs.
  4. Steep hills, up and down.
  5. If you get some experience then you will find you use them less and less.... But they are always there..

Con's. Of course gets you stuck further up the track, ,

  1. Should only be switched on when stationary, which may mean that you are already stuck..
  2. Should only be used in a straight line.. 
  3. Should only be used for the time of need, (short sections) which can make you vunerable at the next obsticle.
  4. Locked axels can cause sideways slip, on a muddy, clay surface or off camber or slope that deviate to the side, this is scary, if its not happed to you, you haven't tried hard enough 
  5. Cost, a rear air or E-locker locker installed is $1600 to $2000
  6. If an airline or electric wire gets pulled then you are stuck

Landrover Discovery 4. Traction Control was first used by Landrover in 1995 on the first Disco. It wasn't very good but it was a stepping stone to the best traction control on the market.  But Landrovers traction control is different to many other systems on the market.

Landrover Discovery 3 and 4 included Terrain Response, this sounds complicated but when you dial in "mud ruts" it alters the Auto, lifts the suspension and changes the throttle response, on the D4 it also "pre-loads the brakes"...  This means less wheel spin that most people are talking about in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDG06g0V_xw

Older Traction Control systems need wheel speed to engage traction control which is why many hate it.

Just remember to turn off ESV or DSC or ESP or VDC whatever the stability control thing on your car is called, the one that goes off when you are in low range. Some traction controls still work at a reduced rate even when you think they are off.

Pro's All Traction control works in a straight line and when turning and is automatic.The cost is already paid for with the car.

Con's (old style)

  1. Few people learn how to use it, read the manual, and less would undergo training to learn how to use it properly.
  2. By time the rev's are high enough to get traction control to work, most people back off = stuck.
  3. Old traction control is not intuitive to driving

Pro's for new style Traction Control.

  1. Cars like the Landrover brand have the best traction control possibly in the world.
  2. Most cars with Traction Control get Down Hill Decent as well can be a pro or con :)
  3. Jeep have their version of terrain respons
  4. Ford Everest and top range Ranger have Terrain Response
  5. The new Mitsubishi Pajero has a Terrain Response which works well
  6. Toyota, Nissan both are working on a terrain response system 
  7. In 3 or 4 years all 4WD with have terrain respons with pre-loaded traction control.

Con's If you don't learn how to use it it will be as useless as locker that are not turned on.

If I had the money today i would buy one of the last Discovery 4's (love the style) with an electric rear locker, 

The LR electric locker can partially lock as required and adds to the traction control...

My Disco 4 goes everywhere my Toyota can go, in more comfort and often better...

The Old Coach Road, Cape York, CREB included...  

 

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Thanks heaps for this discussion!

We  just bought a 2015 FJ cruiser and have to get to know this awesome car better, it is "learning by doing" for us, so far we had a lot guidance through this forum and I did a 4wd course. Would not mind to take the FJ to a proving ground....so if it is offered we're in!!

 

 

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Tony
Tony (Bludge)
04 Mar 2017

Thanks heaps for this discussion!

We  just bought a 2015 FJ cruiser and have to get to know this awesome car better, it is "learning by doing" for us, so far we had a lot guidance through this forum and I did a 4wd cou......

The FJ Toyota has a great traction control system.

 

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