A Subscription, Freemium or Fee based  model works well for apps and websites where the site owner provides all the content. It doesn't work well for sites who provide a platform for UGC (user generated content) like this one. I have a website with 49,500+ members and partnering with industry is really the only way to go. You need to reward members for their content, not charge them. I would develop relationships with some 4WD industry partners in various categories to create a loyalty following (you know, Ironman suspension, MudMaps, Nitto tyres etc etc) and negotiate discounts for your members that also return an advertising referral income to the site.

I'd stay away from Google Ads though. You need more than 1000 unique vistors a day to make any money out of them. Cheers.

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Also how about advertising supporters business not in a big matter don't get me wrong something very very simple like I have a very small business and buy advertising that on the website I might pay a very very small fee on top of my donation or on top of the $5 or whatever per trip or $10 or whatever it would be as an annual fee that is only an idea

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Morning All,

The reason I personally joined 4WDTrips was for the (simplistic way it currently operates) and looking like heading down the path of (did operate with no strings attached?!.) l myself did come from a club paying organisation in which I was part of for near on ten years paying fees to the club an 4WD Victoria. I personally put in countless unpayed hours and money in order to support these two independent organisations. From personal experience the red tape political movement and the narrow mindeness was brutal to say the least!!!. I agree there is no other site like this, that's why it's great because it's free, and not because of the money. Once you start taking payments from people all of a sudden the dinamics change there are expectations from the individual and the foundations begin to be layed for polititics to be thrown in the mix. Also if memberships are payable, should we all be expected to be covered buy insurance by 4WDTrips when we are on its outings?!. If any support is warrented it's better directed towards helping keep all tracks opened through out Australian for all to enjoy. This would be in the way of lobbing the government of the day and carring out working bees, clearing tracks and the like!. I can defiantly smell a rat!, the person or persons that first started 4WDTrips would have known of any cost associated with the every day running of this body, and I'm just wondering, wondering a real lot if they knew all a long that this was going to be set up as a business. In that I think ( get as many members involved as possible ) and then hit them with fees. That is fine but if your going to line your pockets with money, think about how many members there is ( that's a lot of money in return ) well one should expect a very much more of what we are receiving at present. I'm not suggesting anyone wants more but if you want payment then you need to produce!. The viability of this set up would have and should have been thought out before starting it at all, so please don't come at me and or us in that way, we are not a bunch of village idiots that can be brain washed to help line your pockets with cash and lots of it. We can all support elselves without it getting politically money orintaded!!!. You want the facts well this is it in a nut shall, read this email again and then think long and hard about what is being asked from you!. (We are great we are strong and united we stand.) we don't need to pay to have and make new friends just a warm camp fire is all that's needed!, (small fees leads to big problems for some and big profits for others!), no matter how you cut it!.

cheers people and good luck!

Lone Wolf

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I understand where the guys posted above me are coming from. But the reason we need to somehow support 4wdtrip is not to line there pockets with money. But to try and help with the monthly running costs of the website etc

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Nothing in life is free. At the moment we are all lucky sponges while the guys running this site - for us out of their own pocket - are footing the bill. They put a lot of time into the site, into trips and things like the 4wd expo etc to keep it all running.

The point is 1, they shouldn't have to pay for our enjoyment, 2 they should get a little bit of financial reward for the hours spent. And I reckon they're the kind of guys that would give back from extra coin and put on the odd member gathering with a BBQ and could even have a raffle prize sorta thing.

Seriously if people can't dig into their pockets for a 10 or 20 once a year how the hell do you pay to 4wd?

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Bunnings Sausage Sizzle, that would make a few $$$$

wear the jocks, t shirt, cap and sell the stubble holders, few nice 4bs with window stickers advertising 4WD trip

Pay per trip is a crap idea

this site is free but have a Voluntary membership $15 a year is plausable, 

The money might not be much, but when you start adding all these not much money, through out the year. it all becomes a joke how much money we give out to enjoy the hobbies we do.

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Personally I don't like the pay per trip idea. It's important to keep the "free headline". However I think maybe a donation system, so people can help out if they wish. And maybe a raffle or two a year is the way to go :)

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I think paying per trip would be better than paying per year... Especially since we don't have much presence in other states outside Vic.. Wouldn't be fair for someone to join, pay for a year and then realise that there's never trips up in qld or nsw.

If we pay per trip, it'll make sense that whoever enjoys the benefits... Pays for them too! Also will hopefully stop people who just don't show up!

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Hi Guys,

I have been in clubs for over 20 plus years and had a variety of experiences.  What you deliver at the moment is fantastic and I take my hat off to you, however what you may not have considered is that as soon as people start paying for membership, fuel etc it is a whole different dynamic.  I have been involved in a club where a person tragically lost their life on an event we were running, following this the widow of the deceased proceeded to sue the club and the organisers.  It was a harrowing time for all involved and there is no winners in this type of situation.  In the end the club went under and the only winner was the solicitor.

In my current club I believe $40 of our fee goes to 4wd Victoria for public liability insurance.  The rest is to the club for the running and upkeep etc.  I recall from the previously mentioned situation that if people go out as a group etc there is no liability essentially attached as we are all active participants.  However when people start taking or paying for a service the whole situation changes from a legal perspective.  There can be liability involved if this is the case.  I believe the way you are running it at the moment would most likely reduce any form of liabiltiy to any person involved. 

Please understand I don't want to talk doom and gloom however I have come from a world where I have seen the worst case scenario happen and when people are wanting compensation for want of a better word there are some organisations out there who will help them free of charge if they can see a possibilty of getting some money from those involved.

In saying that you definitely need to paid for the running costs etc, I have no argument there.  Possibly sponsorship packages may be the way to go?  If you can show suppliers that you get xxx hits per week and xxx members some organisations will pay to advertise on the site as it makes sense, on top of this they could offer group discounts for bulk ordering etc.

The club merchandise is also a great way to go as well.

What about crowd funding people donate money for all sorts of things?

Once again great work on what you do guys, I really enjoy your trips and love the low key no stress forum type scenario as it suits me to a tee but you have to look at all things and as I am risk adverse look at the worst case scenairo and what could happen.

Cheers

Jase

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This subject was discussed over a year ago amongst a few members at a tripleader gathering and I was surprised to hear how much it cost to keep the site 'up and running'.... Am sure many of us are prepared to put in a few $$$ to help reduce the personal cost to Kelvin, but the other recent comments, especially those by Jase, are correct in once you make membership compulsory there is a potential for another 'can of worms' or two to be opened. Let's be brutally honest now; even though there maybe over 2000 site members I would suspect there are less than 10% who are active on the site. It is only the more recent members who have helped make the forum section of this site more active; which is great by the way. Bottom line is majority of people join this site to have the opportunity to go on a trip and along the way make the odd friendship or two. Am sure many have been involved in the club scene, whether 4wd or other, and are over the politics that often eventuate and this is one of the attractions of this site in that there is no power base as such, no pressure to raise $$$ to cover insurance costs etc and finally no super strict and fast rules.

In other words; LETS KEEP IT SIMPLE and not become a club that is there to make a profit and get all tied up in red tape etc etc. (Am sure that is the way Kelvin would like it as I have no doubt he set this up for 4wders to enjoy without the restrictions/red tape that many clubs have)

If we want to help subsidise the costs; pretty simple in my opinion. You want a sticker, you pay $5. In regard to merchandise as Jesse is looking at; a total disaster in my opinion. I am yet to know of a club who makes money out of merchandise and if you break even, you have done well. If any merchandise was to become available; again keep it simple without any big outlays. If it was me, only 3 things would be available to purchase; 1. Stickers ($5), stubbie holders ($10) and caps ($15-$20). No need for the potential nightmare of ordering different sizes, such as you would with T Shirts, hoodies etc, and money raised from the sale of these 3 items will go to help subsidise the running costs of the site. If people want to donate money on a individual basis, by all means do so but by going down the road of compulsory membership would be fraught with danger in my opinion.

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